Conversation with a (liberal?) christian fundie…

Over the last day I had an ongoing conversation via facebook with the Admin of a Liberal Democratic Party page on facebook. As a very Liberal person myself, this is one of many Left, Liberal, Democratic, type pages I am a member of.

The admin of this page (Manny) posted a link to an article about a boy who had been badly burned and left the following comment:

I got some GOOD NEWS to share. I shared this story a while back. One of my best friends son was burned in a fire. This is the update from Channel 5 in Tenn.. Thank GOD Dylan has come a long ways. Thanks GOD for all the people who helped including Shiners Hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio. ~ Manny Whitlock

To which I replied (perhaps with a bit of snark):

How about instead of thanking some fictional sky daddy, thank the hospital workers and emergency personal who worked their asses off to help this child out…

Now you can argue whether I should have used less snarky words or not called his god a “fictional sky daddy”, but if you read this blog regularly, you should know by now that I don’t hold back on my opinions and I say what I mean.

So I expected a response from Manny, but the one I got was more than a bit surprising:

As for Jeff, how about your keep your evil self to your self. Can you handle that? This country has no place for that kinda evil.

And from there it degenerated much further and quite quickly… A number of people tried to tell Manny to chill and that mixing politics and his religious beliefs was perhaps not a good idea on a public forum. His replies to them was just as amusing as his replies directly to me:

Becky stay out of this please. This has nothing to do with you. This guy is not claiming conservative. He seems to claim Liberal and things has some right to tell people that can’t believe in GOD. That is not liberal. That is evil. Please. Let me handle this.

Manny seemingly takes every statement that does not 100% agree with him as an attack, as evil, and in many cases as proof of a hate crime. He continually willfully exaggerates an y perceived slight as the most egregious thing to happen in all of human history, and has such a persecution complex that even Bill Donohue would probably call him out on it:

But in all my almost 50 years I’ve never heard anyone say anything even close to what Jeff said. Sheeeesh

Keep in mind once again, my comment was simply:

How about instead of thanking some fictional sky daddy, thank the hospital workers and emergency personal who worked their asses off to help this child out…

Perhaps you’ll view this as the worst thing you’ve ever heard or read, but I view it as AT WORST, a bit snarky.

Manny continually uses biblical quotes that seemingly have nothing to do with the conversation, interspersed with his accusation of how I am promoting bigotry, I am evil, that my words constitute a hate crime, and I should leave the country.

He also continually repeats the phrase “jesus loves you”, as that has any meaning, so I reply in kind with comments such as “harry potter like you, but not in a gay way”, “winnie the pooh thinks you’re kinda ok”, and others along those lines. I figure that if he is going to give random emotions to fictional characters I should return the favor.

Finally due to comments by another member of the page, Manny agrees to “take it offline”, and says he’ll add me as a FB friend in order to “share the word” with me. I agree to let him add me and quote his bible verse, if he’ll also agree to answer a few questions I pose about his beliefs and his holy book. And to get the ball rolling, I question him:

Can you tell me the story of Lot and his daughters after they left their home. I’ve always LOVED the scene where they get dear old dad drunk and rape him. It’s such an uplifting and moral tale…

He then adds me and messages me through the FB instant messenger. After a short time IM’ing with him (and unfortunately I did not think to save the conversation), he creates another post on the Liberal Democratic Page, this one in my honor:

Hey  – Jesus Loves You ~ Manny Whitlock

Of course this continues the conversation once again, and he continues to perceive every disagreement as the most vile attack in all of human history. He misrepresents my position repeatedly despite being corrected each and every time, and when others try to intervene to tell him to chill, he posts entirely irrelevant links, for what purpose only he knows.

Manny continues to show a complete lack of understanding of the Bill of Rights, hate crimes, what is and is not legal, and quite frankly, reality…

And when I make a comment about Dr King (one of his links included a clip from MLK):

I agree with Dr King’s goals. I just think he was seriously misguided in his views on religion. I’ve never understood how the descendants of slaves could ever worship a god that condoned slavery…

His response is to say that I hate everything King stood for, and am “spitting at Dr King”, and that I need to see a doctor.

Another member of this group put it nicely I think:

Manny, seriously, what are you on? Jeff didn’t say anything hateful. Why do you always have to play the victim?

Finally around this point this second thread died off and I had to get ready to go out. As I’m trying to get changed and walk out the door Manny IMs me again, saying he wants to call me. This is the second time he has mentioned calling me, and since frankly I don’t want mentally ill people to have too much of my personal information I don’t want him to have my phone number.

Unfortunately I had put my phone number on FB some time before for friends, and Manny noticed this. So as I’m leaving my house:


Now perhaps you’ve disagreed with everything I’ve said up to this point. Perhaps you think Manny is justified in his anger and vitriolic words.

But there is no possible justification for a sane person to call somebody on the phone to tell them they disagree with something they said on facebook.

This conversation went as one might expect. Due to be more than a bit startled that some ignorant jackass fundie has called my phone I am more than a bit short tempered with Manny, and repeatedly tell him to pull his head out of his ass and listen to what I’m saying instead of making shit up.

The conversation luckily ends after only 11 minutes, and I post a status update on FB from my phone as I’m getting to my destination (most of the phone call took place while I was on the road).

He tells me that I must respect his beliefs and he will respect mine. He has said this same thing on the phone and I told him I don’t respect the beliefs of racists, or homophobes, and I see no reason to respect his ludicrous beliefs either.

But manny, I don’t respect your beliefs. I find them delusional and potentially dangerous.

But I also firmly believe you have the right to hold those beliefs, no matter how silly they are.

This post continued more of the same type of comments from Manny, directed at me and others, until in a final bust Manny called me evil one last time and unfriended me…

If you’re up for a good laugh, I’d highly recommend checking out the links I provided and making up your own mind.

And if you’ve learned nothing else from this story learn this: Remove your phone number from facebook

I got some GOOD NEWS to share. I shared this story a while back. One of my best friends son was burned in a fire. This is the update from Channel 5 in Tenn.. Thank GOD Dylan has come a long ways. Thanks GOD for all the people who helped including Shiners Hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio. ~ Manny Whitlock

About Rodibidably

Jeff Randall is a frequent volunteer for free-thought organizations, including the Center For Inquiry – DC. Having been blogging since January 2008, he decided that a community of bloggers would be an interesting new experience (or at the very least a fun way to annoy his friends into reading his posts more frequently). Since finding out about about the existence of, and then joining, the atheist/skeptic community in 2007 he has been committed to community activism, critical thinking in all aspects of life, science, reason, and a fostering a secular society.
This entry was posted in Debate, Politics, Religion. Bookmark the permalink.

14 Responses to Conversation with a (liberal?) christian fundie…

  1. poietes says:

    He called you? Actually dialed your number as if you wanted to speak with him in person? Wow. I am stupefied.

    Manny sounds so much like Palin–taking what is said and twisting it into some much ado about not the subject at hand.

    Yes, you were snarky but correct. Thank all of the people in the medical field who worked their asses off.

    By the way, hope you have removed you phone number from every public place and blocked Manny’s number…

    • Jeff Randall says:

      It really did creep me out. I never really expected somebody to call me over a disagreement online…

      The Palin comparison is fairly accurate I think, he takes anything said to him that is not 100% supportive as a direct insult. It doesn’t matter what is said, unless it’s a mimic of his view, it’s as if you told him you just got done killing his dog. At first I thought he was just exaggerating for effect, but the longer it went on, the more clear it became that he REALLY seems to believe what he is saying, despite how disconnected from reality it is.

      I have checked to make sure my number is not available for the next nutjob that comes along, and luckily my address was never available.

  2. BEC says:

    He hasn’t unfriended me yet. You know, I told you at the time I believed it was an unfair fight. While I understand your impatience, I think both of you could use a lesson in tolerance.

    • Jeff Randall says:

      I’m surprised he hasn’t unfriended you yet. You dared to not agree with him 100%.

      BTW, I’m curious where you think I was intolerant?

      Was it when I told him he is free to believe whatever he chooses?
      Was it when I told him he is free to say whatever he wishes?
      Was it when I said that despite our differences of opinion, that unlike him, I feel he has a right to live where he chooses?
      Was it when I said that it’s possible to disagree with somebody while not hating them?
      Was it when I said it’s possible to respect a person (like Dr King) while strongly disagreeing with one aspect of that person’s life?
      Was it when I explained that the First Amendment gives not just me the right to say what I want, but also give him the right to say what he wants?

  3. BEC says:

    No Darlin’’s the way you said it. Maybe not even on purpose; but all of those things were couched in such snarky tones. Calling someone’s God a “fictional sky Daddy” – not the way to start a dialog. Your contempt was pretty much Neon Sign. And that’s what I mean by intolerant. I could see where you were going with it, and could look through the attitude and actually agree with most of what you said. No way could Dude. I don’t think he’s capable of looking into the deeper message and getting past the insults. Don’t get me wrong, BOTH of you were going at it (No, I don’t think you’re!). Manny was 100% wrong to call you and damn..that’d creep anyone out. I’m just sayin’ there was no innocent party here, that’s all (except maybe me, trying to Switzerland and failing miserably). Make sense at all?

    • Jeff Randall says:

      I agree I was snarky.
      I would not even really argue if somebody wanted to say I went beyond snarky and was combative or something to that effect.

      But I’d also argue that when the admin of a political page, specifically a LIBERAL page (where freedom of speech should be foremost among the ideals), tries to push his personal religious beliefs onto the group, that I have the right to call that admin on it.

      Most people who know me would certainly agree that I have a combative personality. And if all he had done was responded in kind, I’d have never bothered to blog about it, or post a status update on FB about it.

      But the fact that he called me stepped so far over the line that I’m at a loss for words.

  4. BEC says:

    Dude, don’t misunderstand… I agree he DID step over the line (waaaaaaaaaay over!) and I also agree that he makes no sense, calling his page Liberal, since it’s truly a CHRISTIAN only, Liberal Group (I’m basing this on his response to anyone that doesn’t believe exactly like himself). I’m actually planning to suggest he change the name – THEN, it would make sense. Was only pointing out that you both were kind of feeding off each other’s intolerance; therefore nothing positive could come of it. It’s a pretty Human response (damn us Humans! LOL!).

  5. BEC says:

    And, that’s fine; however, would you concede that, as an impartial observer, I might possibly be able to see things a bit clearer than either of you? I can only tell you how it looked from here and that is my assessment. I have nothing to lose or gain, either way. Maybe it’s a testosterone thing…hadn’t taken that into consideration…hmmm.

    • Jeff Randall says:

      “And, that’s fine; however, would you concede that, as an impartial observer, I might possibly be able to see things a bit clearer than either of you”
      I agree…

      But I also don’t see anything I said that could be described as “intolerant”…

      I agree I showed contempt for Manny.
      I agree I was snarky.
      I’d agree if you wanted to say I was rude.

      But I don’t think anything I said, qualifies as “intolerant”…

  6. BEC says:

    No big. I guess it just boils down to a difference in perception. This conversation has made me go refresh my memory of the definition of intolerance – I thought maybe I was remembering it incorrectly, so:

    This particular description was, indeed, what I was thinking:

    1. lacking respect for practices and beliefs other than one’s own

    Since I equate contempt and “snarkiness” as disrespect, I stand by my original conclusion. That said, it doesn’t really matter much, in the bigger picture – and I’m perfectly happy to concede it to your own perception.

    Bottom line, Dude was way out of line to call you and I would’ve preferred to have you both talk it out in a more civil manner. Either way, what I prefer is not really paramount to anything except what I!

    I always enjoy hearing different perspectives on things, regardless.

    • Jeff Randall says:

      Apparently I have a different idea of what “intolerance” is.

      I agree that I lack respect for Manny.
      I agree that I lack respect for the beliefs and practices of Manny.

      But I would not view that as intolerant. Perhaps my view of “intolerant” is not correct, but I have always viewed “intolerance” as going beyond just lacking respect for beliefs, but also claiming that people do not have the right to practice those beliefs.
      While I don’t respect Manny’s beliefs, I also firmly believe he has the right to hold them.

      I guess my interpretation of “intolerant” is different than yours, and different than

  7. LibDem says:

    Here is part of Manny’s blog on the Organizing for America page on

    “It took me awhile but I do have the proof. I was an Obama supporter a year ago and stood strong on what I felt. I was attacked by myspace, had my emails intercepted, blogs changed, possible the phone tapped by the bush’s, I definately had a suspicious truck watching my house, and the list goes on. “

    • Jeff Randall says:

      He seriously believes that “the Bush’s” are after him personally for supporting Obama?

      I think it’s fair to say that there is more than enough evidence to support the idea that he may suffer from some type of mental illness and is in serious need of help…

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