A couple simple(?) questions about prayer

I admit I may have some things wrong here, and if I do, I’m certain that somebody will be *helpful* and correct me where I am wrong…

My idea here is that there are a few things about prayer that I don’t understand, and am hoping somebody who BELIEVES in prayer can answer. My issues with understanding prayer come from a few concepts I have on the christian faith from my being raised by christians, going to church, etc as a child and even being an alter boy and getting confirmed in the catholic church before studying other versions of christianity. Perhaps my issue is with my understandings not of prayer, but of the underlying ideas of god, omniscience, etc, and if so, I’m sure you’ll all be happy to correct me.

Now as I understand the christian faith (and this may or may not apply to ALL versions of christianity, but it seems to be prevalent in most christians faiths I’ve come in contact with):

God knows all (omniscience)
So before I was born, god “knew” I would have red hair.
I’m alive now, presumably god knows exactly how and when I will die.

God can do all (omnipotent)
So if god wanted me to have red hair, despite my parents genes predisposing me towards red hair, god could have made me a blond, etc
If god “knows” I am supposed to die 24 hours from now, in a car accident, and god chooses so, he can save me from that accident

I assume that so far I have not said anything that any christians will disagree with, but who knows… If I have made a mistake so far, please speak up.

Now we get to the area of prayer.

Prayer supposedly works. According to the bible, if you ask for something in prayer, god will give it to you.
The webpage WhyWontgodHealAmputees goes into this is much greater detail that I care to right now, and I don’t see the need to copy and paste the content, just check the link for details.

Now if we assume that prayer does indead work (as the bible claims), we get to my questions:
If god knows everything that will happen already, and has the ability to change everything, how can prayer change what was going to happen?
Here is a simple example:
Let’s say god knows I am supposed to die in a car accident 24 hours from now
Let’s say that somebody prays for me to live to my birthday (which is more than 24 hours from now)
And let’s say this prayer is answered, and I live past that car accident 24 hours from now.

Does this mean god was “wrong” when he “knew” I was going to die 24 hours from now?
Or does this mean god “knew” I would not die 24 hours from now, and thus the prayer had no effect on anything, since I was never going to die 24 hours from now anyways?

In one scenario, god can be wrong
In the other scenario, prayer has no effect

Ok, on to my second question:
If we are to assume god’s plan is what’s "best" for everything (i.e. he has omnibenevolance), then isn’t praying for any outcome, putting our own wishes, desires, etc above the will of god?

Again, let’s use the example of me dying in 24 hours.
If that was really god’s original plan, and god knows all, can do all, and is “good”, then by definition whatever the original plan was, shoudl be the best possible plan, and can not ever be improved upon, correct?
By praying for anything, isn’t the person automatically claiming that their own wishes are greater than god, since they are essentiually saying “I know that god has a plan, but I want MY needs met now, even if they were not originally part of that plan“?

[Also posted at the JREF for more discussion]

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About Rodibidably

Jeff Randall is a frequent volunteer for free-thought organizations, including the Center For Inquiry – DC. Having been blogging since January 2008, he decided that a community of bloggers would be an interesting new experience (or at the very least a fun way to annoy his friends into reading his posts more frequently). Since finding out about about the existence of, and then joining, the atheist/skeptic community in 2007 he has been committed to community activism, critical thinking in all aspects of life, science, reason, and a fostering a secular society.
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19 Responses to A couple simple(?) questions about prayer

  1. I can give you my take on the rationale behind prayer if you’d like. However, you first might like to acquaint yourself with a new theory of evolution which I wrote about on my webpage.

    In this theory, there is discussion of a higher kingdom (girasas) which makes there way into form life by descending into the highest form that is on Earth today (humans). This theory can be called the 7 race theory of evolution, where the first 3 races are indicative of the descent of the human (accompanied by the corresponding ascent of the animal), the 4th race is sole occupying kingdom on earth (for a time), and the 5th-7th races are the exchange which takes place between the human and girasas kingdoms. The girasas is currently in its 1st race, hovering above the humans (along with their accompanying involving lives or angels). As the human becomes more and more familiar with this kingdom, they begin to occupy the same form (2nd girasas race and 6th human race). After a time together in one body, the next stage begins which is known as the split between the two kingdoms: the humans begin to hover above the earth forms prior to their departure from Earth. (Two kingdoms cannot coexist on one globe, for the purpose of being a kingdom could not be explored under the governance of the higher kingdom.)

    Since we are currently the 5th human race, we are continuing to explore our new relationship with the girasas. While they are generally able to work on their own for the good of humanity, occasionally they do not respond well to humans because they are more highly evolved and may at times appear to be insensitive to our conditions. Thus, when we attempt to open them up to us through love and prayer, we generate extra energy to put behind a request. While prayer is very useful and increases our abilities to make commands for our human benefit, commanding generally would apply to the group of angels that work under each kingdom. Commanding angels is how they grow and our ability to command the angels that are brought with the girasas may help to define them for inclusion in our group of angels (some to be passed off to animals as we exchange with them again). There are many Cosmic Beings who respond to requests by humans and not just Ascended Masters (forerunners of the 6th human race) or girasas kingdom. When we invite the Elohim or Kumaras to participate in our conditions, it is as if we are loving them and wanting to generate some of the same light energies that they generate. There is much more involved in a request for, say, forgiveness, then just learning to be forgiving. When we ask for forgiveness, it is as if we are asking for the girasas being to more fully manifest in our beings and worlds. It is as if we say “Give us all the good in spite of our falling short of your great capabilities.” and they try to because they have an intent and purpose in taking material form (similar to the intent that we use with animals). It is not only a benefit for the kingdom that is engrossed in matter. While there is benefit for the lower kingdom in being freed from earth and to pursue the ascent of the animal kingdom (again – 49 descent-ascents complete the process), there is also benefit for the girasas in obtaining a place to make their habitat (though temporary). Each kingdom acquires the form and the globe, ejecting the prior kingdom.

    We ask for the benefits from them and they enact their due upon our forms and lives by conforming us to their needs.

  2. Rodibidably says:

    new theory of evolution

    Theories make testable claims, and are subject to falsification.

    Please tell me what testable claims your “theory” make, and at least one example that would falsify your “theory”…

    If your idea is not testable, and is unfalsifiable, it is not a theory, it is a hypothesis (at best).

  3. When I began reading the literature in theosophy, I was told to test what we were being told. I purified my life, practiced with the new age groups, and continued reading and studying. One result of this was the idea about evolution that no one else ever seemed to have had before me.

    In a way, some of the statements about powers, etc., were not exactly falsified, but they were conditioned upon the girasas being present and acting. I don’t know if you would say that it proved or disproved the theory, but it changed my efforts at proving what I was reading.

    For some reason my interest has been taken away from trying to prove the theory. Rather than find people who had gone through some of the stages of “combining” human to girasas, I would rather turn my attention to where it could do the most good. It’s not that I want new agers to do an “about face” either and leave their methods.

    Want I really want is for the new age organizations to be honest about what they are presenting to the public. If I had known when I began my research that I would be finding another kingdom, higher than the human and intent upon ascending us off the earth, I might have found a completely different approach to dealing with this information.

    What approach should be taken? I don’t know. Can these organizations come forward and in the interest of honesty and integrity make known the results of my life’s work? I want them to very badly. But in the event that they will not, at least there may be other groups, scientists, scholars, media, that will make public my discovery. It is in the interest of fair play that people be allowed to consider what is being written and practiced in the “spirit of brotherhood.”

    You do not have to repeat my experiment. You only have to help provide for those people who encounter this next kingdom and reach an impasse in their study, or worse yet, who somehow lose in their battle to help provide goodness to other humans on earth.

    If this is happening, rather than hope to provide research designs for you, I would just hope to provide you with some results that you could at least consider in your own search for a greater life.

  4. Rodibidably says:

    For some reason my interest has been taken away from trying to prove the theory… I would rather turn my attention to where it could do the most good.

    But if you can’t show evidence that the idea is even valid, how can you look at using it?

    You refer many times to your “testing” and your “research”, but you have not explained any research you’ve actually done (other than “purifying your life, and reading”).

    If I had known when I began my research that I would be finding another kingdom

    How EXACTLY did you “find” this other kingdom? Have you seen it? Have you been to it? Can you take others there? Where is it (specifically)? Can we take pictures or video of it? Can you point to it on a map, and send people to it to study it?

    I’m curious exactly where your evidence for this “idea” is. It seems that you’ve read a number of books (perhaps new age books, it’s a bit hard to tell exactly), and from that reading you’ve created this idea of yours. However I am unsure of where you found the evidence to base your idea off of.

    at least there may be other groups, scientists, scholars, media, that will make public my discovery.

    The word “discovery” implies that something was found. Something tangible, that can be seen, touched, tested, etc… From your descriptions it seems that the only thing you’ve “found” is an idea, but you have nothing tangible. If I’m wrong, please correct me, but I have not seen you speak about something that can be observed, you’ve only spoken of this “idea”.

    You do not have to repeat my experiment

    What experiment is this exactly? What SPECIFIC steps did you take? What are the expected results of the experiment?

    would just hope to provide you with some results

    What are the specific results you’re talking about? You don’t seem to mention what you’ve found, you only seem to go on about this “idea”.

  5. You have to think in terms of math and mathematical proofs. Mathematics can identify laws of nature that we don’t comprehend without it.

    This question is about prayer. I’m claiming that no one understood what was in THE SECRET DOCTRINE enough to teach it at schools. I’m also claiming that due to misunderstandings of what is written there, people neglected what we should require of them, and that is that schools should be required to do thorough analyses of written material. Rather than ponder, dig, and make attempts at deciphering this difficult work, our scholars ejected it.

    If there is a theory of evolution there – handed down from the girasas kingdom itself – don’t you want to know about it?

    I’m also claiming that if this kingdom is coming into us and we will exist in an androgynous form in the next race, that we need to comprehend what prayer is?

  6. Rodibidably says:

    You’re missing my main point again.

    Where is the EVIDENCE of your idea?

    So far all you have said is that you read some books, did new age meditation, and came up with this idea you now have.

    But you have yet to point towards any evidence of any type.

    Please explain the steps you took to come to your conclusions, what types of experiments you conducted, what were the results of those experiments, and where is the evidence that backs up your claims.

  7. Well, it seems like a totally different topic. I thought you were here asking about prayer. I have many writings that can be searched on the internet with the word: girasas.

    I hope you understand that I was waiting for a messenger to come in the last quarter of the last century – as most theosophists are aware was prophesied to happen. I didn’t expect any idea to come to me and I was unprepared to try to be the messenger, but the idea was so wrenching that I couldn’t just continue with my explorations and had to stop my associations until I could manage to inform enough people about what I was doing in this new manner.

    I can continue all the same old practices under this new theory and attempt to gather evidence but until people can come to terms with what is currently here for us, what end could I hope for? Would they kill anyone with this new kingdom inside of them?

  8. Rodibidably says:

    Well, it seems like a totally different topic. I thought you were here asking about prayer.

    Well, as this post is going off certain assumptions about the beliefs of people regarding prayer (an omnipotent, omniscient, good diety who answers prayers), and since your beliefs seem quite different those those assumptions (you seem to be talking about various levels of reality, etc) I am trying ot understand exactly what you’re saying, so I can respond intelligently.

    So far you’ve made various claims about your ideas, and you’ve refered to experiement, results, etc but you’ve given no evidence of those experiments, results, etc…
    I am trying ot get a baseline of what exactly you’re claiming, and the easiest way to understand your idea is to see any evidence that supports your claims. The ideas you’ve talked about are not exactly easy to follow (which could very well be me), so I’m trying to see if I can deconstruct your idea based on the evidence you claim to have.

    I have many writings that can be searched on the internet with the word: girasas.

    I’ve read a bit from your site and some other forums about your “idea”, and they still make no more sense ot me than when you began. I think showing the evidence for your idea would help show me (and others) what exactly your ideas are…

    Would they kill anyone with this new kingdom inside of them?

    Who is this “they” that you’re worried about?

  9. They is our society.

    Check out this link: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes.html I’ve got a few comments on there and also at http://www.intent.com

    I’ll be happy to try to explain further the theory, but why criticize me as if I don’t have any support for the idea. Wait until you hear it and understand it and then think what we might be able to do with the material.

    I was 18 when I heard about a spiritual path by reading THE YOGA SUTRAS

  10. They is our society.

    Check out this link: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes.html I’ve got a few comments on there and also at http://www.intent.com

    I’ll be happy to try to explain further the theory, but why criticize me as if I don’t have any support for the idea. Wait until you hear it and understand it and then think what we might be able to do with the material.

    I was 18 when I heard about a spiritual path by reading THE YOGA SUTRAS. THE YOGA SUTRAS have very specific instructions about how to go about seeking . . . . the goal of yoga . . . . which is liberation from rebirth, according to this book. They tell us that we can advance, through initiation and that we will gain powers in the process (Book III is all about the powers). Book I is The Problem of Union, Book II is the Steps to Union, Book III is Union Achieved and its Results, Book IV is Illumination (and here is the link: http://netnews.helloyou.ch/patanjali/toc.html )

    So I began to follow the instructions as they were given in this book. Then I found books on theosophy and joined that organization and worked at their headquarters to learn more. (founded 1875)

    Next I found the books on Saint Germain Foundation and “I AM” Temple (founded 1930s – 50s) and spent many years practicing as they directed. One day I was sitting in their temple looking at a picture of Archangel Michael and the idea of the 7 races as given in theosophy just popped into my as if two kingdoms could trade places, so that during human descent (1st-3rd races) animals are interacted with and this interaction draws the human down into form and the animal up out of form. 4th race the kingdom is alone on earth. 5th-7th races a similar process occurs with the human being the lower of the two kingdoms and this time ascending off the earth. (I have studied many books in theosophy, especially A.P. Sinnett’s in regards to this theory.)

    So at that point no one else knew this concept and so I began telling others about it but no one seemed to think the idea had potential or wanted to help me with it. So I left these two groups and began telling everyone I could find who would listen.

  11. Rodibidably says:

    Would they kill anyone with this new kingdom inside of them?

    They is our society.

    So do you think “society” (whatever that means in your view) would want to kill you for telling this info? I’m a bit confused at exactly what your question was…

    Check out this link…

    I looked at both fo the links. I’m a fan of Dennet, and had not seen that video before, so it was interesting to see.
    However your comments on there seemed to be nothing more than what you’ve said here. I saw no evidence there, just as you’ve shown no evidence here.

    I am curious how you knew about memes before Dawkins, since he is the one who coined the term in 1976 (The Selfish Gene). Perhaps you were aware of the concept (the concept itself was not a new one). What Dawkins did was give it a name, and begin the study of memes that had not really been done before.

    I’ll be happy to try to explain further the theory

    I’m happy about that. So far I have not really understodo where the idea came from (other than just your own mind).

    but why criticize me as if I don’t have any support for the idea

    I was not criticizing you, or your ideas. I was asking you for evidence that validates your ideas.

    Wait until you hear it and understand it and then think what we might be able to do with the material.

    I’m still waiting. I’ve asked you multiple times now for the evidence of your ideas, so that I can better understand exactly what your ideas are. So far you’ve continued to avoid giving me any direct indication that you have this evidence or are willing to share it if you do have it.

  12. Evidence of ideas?

    Is it a new idea? If you’ve never heard it, it is.

    I found the 7 race theory of evolution in THE SECRET DOCTRINE when I was about 21. I did not care if anyone gave it credit in our society since it did have a mysterious origin, but to me it doesn’t matter if the idea comes from science or philosophy, it is still an idea that may have value.

    When I studied theosophy, I was told not to believe things, but to test them out and the way I was told to test them was to purify and practice as instructed and then to measure any results. I knew people who were clairvoyant healers and I thought possibly that I might find some power in myself at one stage of my endeavors. Before I reached a result of that nature, the results I achieved instead was verification for the theory of evolution.

    I am not approaching you with only the viewpoint of theosophy, because The Saint Germain Foundation, a group with a separate founding and separate body of literature, confirms the analysis of the 7 race theory of evolution. Also, the idea is further confirmed in Christianity.

    Would people in our world today be capable of living comfortably with one individual, such as Jesus Christ, who had permitted a girasas kingdom to change him to such an extent that he was no longer a 5th race human, but was instead an example of a 6th race human? The society at that time killed Jesus Christ.

    I think that people today are very committed to being autonomous and if there is a higher kingdom operating on earth or in one or more individuals, it is threatening to those people who prefer to live as a human without this strange “ill-conceived of” half human-half girasas type of life. If this view of evolution is correct, the 6th race will come upon us all at some point in the far distant future, perhaps 400,000 years from now, however there may be many people who want to put off the development into half human-half girasas for as long as they can.

    One of the recurring activities in the “I AM” Temple is to purify the life around us and all we contact and in the process of living a “purifying” lifestyle, we naturally incorporate others within our sphere of influence. There are decrees (or prayers) in which we ask that Ascended Masters “force the purification.”

    I think that it is unfair for you to continue to ask me for evidence. Obviously the evidence is in the books, which I am almost certain you have not read. If you read the books, you will find the concepts and then you will see that the idea itself is hidden in the way THE SECRET DOCTRINE is written.

    One of the biggest clues is that the 7 race theory presents the 2nd and 6th races as androgynous, but the others are not. One of the biggest obstacles to comprehending the picture as I present it is that the 7 kingdoms which operate on earth in a cyclical 7 rounds of 7 globes in a chain end with the human. There is no mention of any kingdom other than the 7: 1st elemental (thoughts), 2nd elemental (feelings), 3rd elemental (etheric forms), minerals, plants, animals, human. It is these 7 kingdoms which comprise a globe chain. So the way that I finally determined a need for a higher kingdom that ascends the human is through practice at The Saint Germain Foundation where viewing the Chart of the “I AM” Presence will show one figure in a globe of colors standing over a human figure standing on earth. Reading and studying the decrees will reinforce this method for ascending the human of allowing higher beings to enter your mind, body, and feelings.

    Then, a study of Christianity will show Jesus Christ teaching of a higher kingdom within us, a death on a cross (between two kingdoms), doctrines of forgiveness and salvation which can account for the blessings we receive without actually having warranted them, the virgin birth or inception of a higher being in a mysterious manner not involving sex between likes, and also the betrayal by Judas, who if he is like many people I know, may at times be torn between who to give loyalty to: the humans or the girasas.

    That is 3 separate traditions (2 fairly new) that present a picture of life which is currently not discussed in schools and not well-known, if at all. What I would like to see happen is for this idea to be allowed to exist, discussed openly, and even presented to school children. I deserve the best education possible and even when we study Plato or other philosophers, we honor them with thinking great thoughts that may inspire greatness in ourselves.

  13. Rodibidably says:

    Evidence of ideas?

    Yes, I thought that was clear.
    If I say that I have an idea that dogs can talk, any rational person would ask me for evidence of such a phenomena. Without providing evidence, my idea can be dismissed as nothing more than an overactive imagination (or a fraud).

    Is it a new idea? If you’ve never heard it, it is.

    No, an idea can be new to ME, but not a new idea.
    For a simple example, Charles Darwin came up with the Theory of Evolution by means of Natural Selection 150 years ago. I did not learn of this until sometime in school in the 1980’s. At that time this theory was new to me, but not a new theory.

    You have claimed repeatedly, that YOU came up with this idea. If this is true, then the theory is new. If you took another person’s idea and said it’s yours, it’s not a new idea. Either way, the idea is new to ME.

    I found the 7 race theory of evolution in THE SECRET DOCTRINE when I was about 21

    There is an expression, made famous by Carl Sagan, that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”.

    This idea of yours, and “the secret doctrine” are extraordinary claims. They seem to disregard much of what is currently understood about nature, reality, etc, and replace those concepts with new ones.
    As such they require extraordinary evidence to validate them.

    Here is a simple way to understand this.
    If I tell you that this morning I ate a bowl of cereal and a bagel, this is a reasonable claim. It may or may not be true, but if I show you a cereal bowl with remnant of milk, and a plate with crumbs on it, you’d be able to assume that I was telling you the truth. Since the claim that I had a certain breakfast has little if any impact on anything other than my hunger (and perhaps me needing to go to the store for more milk), and since it’s a reasonable idea based on previously available knowledge, the evidence to confirm my breakfast is quite small.
    Now if I were to tell you that this morning, I floated out of my best, was taken on a spaceship, and examined by aliens, the evidence needed to support that would be much great. The ability for a person to float out of their bed on he earth goes against what we know of gravity. The idea of aliens abducting people goes against what we know of propulsion, and while not impossible is not likely. Since this claim would be so extraordinary, and would change a number of previously known ideas, the evidence to support this idea should be just as extraordinary.

    When I studied theosophy, I was told not to believe things, but to test them out and the way I was told to test them was to purify and practice as instructed and then to measure any results.

    And I have asked you many times to explain these “tests” and “results”, and yet you have not done so.

    Would people in our world today be capable of living comfortably with one individual, such as Jesus Christ, who had permitted a girasas kingdom to change him to such an extent that he was no longer a 5th race human, but was instead an example of a 6th race human? The society at that time killed Jesus Christ.

    Actually, a small group within society killed jesus (if you take the bible at face value). Society as a whole rarely is able to agree on anything, much less the execution of one of it’s own.

    I think that it is unfair for you to continue to ask me for evidence.

    I think it’s VERY fair. You’ve claimed you performed tests. You’ve claimed those tests produced results. You CLAIM you have the evidence, I am just asking for this evidence.

  14. There are tests that are psychological in nature.

    For instance, when this idea came to me, I had to rethink everything I thought that I knew and had learned. It took me almost a year to recover and at times I could feel the electricity in my brain, as if it was rewiring.

    Many, many people have puzzled over the issue of Maya, and that life is an illusion and that the spiritual reality is greater than the material world and in the sense that it is more real and lasting. I could never understand completely the illusion of the material world, but once I awakened to this idea of evolution, I could see that involving lives (angelic kingdoms) in bodies that make up the environment of the evolving kingdom (human or girasas or animal) make it “appear” as if evolution is occurring since those bodies are alive on earth, too. However if the kingdom of nature (any) is here for a short time and then ascends leaving the earth for the next higher kingdom, then what we see as evolving plants and animals are forms occupied by angels which accompany us and which do as they are commanded to do (a mark of the involving kingdoms) and do not work to progress towards greater free will, but work towards greater obedience.

    All the while, during this 5th race, those involving lives are under the influence of the angels that the girasas brought with them and so while each of the evolving kingdoms is feeling the presence of the next higher kingdom, so are each of the angels feeling the pressure from the angels that accompany that girasas kingdom.

    Angels that involve progress in the opposite direction to evolution.

    Telling someone about this, it is possible to feel how we were tricked into thinking evolution rather than evolution-involution as a pair. And it is a great shame to me that human science didn’t find things, but had to be told things by a girasas kingdom. And it is a great shame to me that scholars didn’t keep tackling the work THE SECRET DOCTRINE until they had dug out everything they possibly could from the written book. THEY TOSSED IT OUT.

    And all this while (for many years), I have been worried about a family who has been like the only friends to us. When Jesus grew up he had a cousin John, who was beheaded. And while I do not to see death as a result of this exploration, I have to face what we do consider to be KNOWN and this family is very precious to me and I am not just protecting my own family, but trying to be there for them, too.

  15. Rodibidably says:

    There are tests that are psychological in nature

    So all of the “tests” you’ve performed are thinking about a book you read, and creating this idea of yours based on those thoughts?

    It took me almost a year to recover and at times I could feel the electricity in my brain, as if it was rewiring.

    So while you were thinking about this idea, you experienced feelings of electricity in your head?
    I don’t mean to sound dismissive of your ideas, but THAT is something that you should have medical professionals look into.

    And all this while (for many years), I have been worried about a family who has been like the only friends to us…

    It sounds as if a few times you’ve tried to compare yourself to jesus, and you’ve expressed fear that people (society) may try to harm you.
    Again, I don’t want to sound dismissive, but I do believe it may be a good idea for you to talk to a medical professional. Perhaps you’re correct, but I think that talking to a psychiatrist might be beneficial for you.

    —–

    I’m curious how these ideas came to you. Was it like a “divine inspiration” type of thing? Did you receive messages somehow? Or did you just try to figure things out, and the ideas you came up with best explained what you were reading?

    You seem to have some VERY specific ideas of how things work, and those ideas seem to be unique (at least as far as I know). To have these specific ideas, that you’re convinced are true, without any tangible evidence, seems interesting to me. I’m curious how that happens.

  16. Well, yes, we try to figure out what we read in THE SECRET DOCTRINE and other theosophical books. It tells us about Ascended Masters and their associative powers. We try to walk to the path and to become an Ascended Master. I used to encourage selflessness, dispassion, and other qualities that are written about in the literature, but when I had this epiphany and awakened to this process of evolution occurring by interaction with another kingdom, I was struck by the novelty of the idea to the point of not being able to continue to practice.

    This wasn’t in the literature. No one told me that I would share a body, mind, and emotional nature with another kingdom. Sure, Jesus Christ tells us frequently about a higher kingdom even to the point that it is within us, but I hadn’t figured it out the way it is written about in new age literature. Yes, there are many available resources for people serious about spiritual lives, but in a new way this 7 race theory connects the diversity into a picture of descent (by stages) and ascent.

    Because it wasn’t in the literature when I began my search, I feel as if somebody needs to talk about it enough so that others who are also searching can be made aware of the difficulties and dangers.

    Heaven’s Gate members died. Waco community members died. Jim Jones massacre was horrendous. Why would spiritual seekers take their own lives?

    If people can hear this idea about a girasas and can make room in their own search for this possibility, then perhaps it could prevent people from taking lives in their soul searching. If I had known about this kingdom descending in concert with my ascending, I would have done things differently. I would have wanted support in a different way and not been so isolated. I would have wanted documentation to occur for the purpose of assisting the “next” achievers.

    Wanting liberation from rebirth is my “shared” experience with some of those who have died. It is a sense of missing out on the greater experience in life, but now that I know of a higher kingdom attempting to infiltrate earth life and lives, I am less intent on escaping earth. Instead, I want to take a stand here along with my fellow humans.

    Do you understand how confusing it can be to have certain energies of love and spiritual desires inside of you and all the while thinking it is just you; that you are uniquely attracted away from material existence, or to be happy that you find a group with like desires?

    If a higher kingdom penetrating our lives can account for some of the inclinations within us, then perhaps we can better temper our existence to include this higher kingdom, but not to be at their complete beckoning. We could take a united stand: I don’t have to go into their realm. They have to come here.

    Now, I want to experience all I can of this kingdom without having to undergo liberation and I especially will enjoy seeing the other lives around me improved by this kingdom and the experiences (vastly varied) of the process occurring.

  17. Rodibidably says:

    Brenda,
    I’m curious, do you read my replies, and specifically my questions, or do you just prefer to ramble on without any desire to engage in a dialog?

  18. Tim says:

    How is being an atheist anymore right than being a jew or catholic or satanist? Your right its not. You might want to think more critically about your statement. Or at least remove the implication that youre a critical thinker, due to its poor use in that sentence. Believe me its not you being right that makes you sound like a fuckwit.

    • Rodibidably says:

      Tim,

      How is being an atheist anymore right than being a jew or catholic or satanist? Your right its not.

      I never said that atheism is the only rational choice or absolutely the correct choice.

      For me, my opinion on the best way to know things leads me to my lack of belief in a deity, and to the belief that the typical understandings of god are incorrect. For a bit more detail on what I actually believe in regards to religion, I’d suggest reading my post where I talk about what I mean when I say I do not believe in god: https://potomac9499.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/what-do-you-mean-when-you-say-god-does-or-does-not-exist/

      You might want to think more critically about your statement. Or at least remove the implication that you’re a critical thinker, due to its poor use in that sentence.

      If you’re referring to the quote at the top of the blog, it’s from Tim Minchin: https://potomac9499.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/quote-of-the-moment-5/

      —–

      I’d also be quite interested to hear your thoughts on the questions raised in this post. Assuming you are a theists of some sort, do you believe in prayer, and if so how would you answer my questions?

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